Jordan Harbinger’s podcast will get amongst 5 to 10 million downloads a thirty day period.
Those people numbers will be eye-popping to most podcasters, who know how difficult developing an viewers can be. Just how challenging is the activity? Consider this: If a podcast publishes a new episode, and that new episode receives only 4,588 downloads in the very first 7 times, that puts the podcast in the top 1% of all podcasts. (That is Buzzsprout info as of January, 2023.)
In other phrases, 99% of podcasts do not get 4,588 downloads in the initially 7 times — let on your own lots of tens of millions a thirty day period.
So how did Harbinger make the viewers he has? By diving deep into how the podcast ecosystem works, and what delivers listeners again to his show. He is a former Wall Road law firm whose present, The Jordan Harbinger Clearly show, is created for curious persons: He interviews a huge vary of fascinating folks, and generates other episodes with different formats that discover listener questions and well-liked myths.
In this dialogue on the Entrepreneur podcast Challenge Solvers, Harbinger tells editor in main Jason Feifer how he developed his viewers, together with:
- How to appeal to new listeners
- How to make new formats to preserve listeners engaged
- What it can take to build some thing truly value listening to
- And much more!
Listen to the conversation in this article, or read through an edited edition of the transcript below.
At the extremely beginning, how did you create the viewers for the show?
I had an present viewers from a previous present, but the bulk of my viewers uncovered me in the decades since. What I did was I went on as quite a few other podcasts as I could. I talked about things that were hard for me, items that ended up heading very well for me. I shared awareness.
I also traded a large amount of advert swaps with other demonstrates. I you should not see other people today carrying out this. It’s underutilized and it really is no cost. I know the cause a ton of demonstrates will not do this is mainly because men and women say, “What if I advocate a exhibit and people prevent listening to my show?” I realize that, in particular if you’re a new creator, but folks know that there are other podcasts. If you endorse a demonstrate and it truly is a excellent exhibit, you are building your system as an authority. What you can come across is that most individuals will not ditch you. I seriously do not see a web loss from this. If you appear in with this shortage mentality, it does not support you grow.
When you get that listener, how do you create a connection and hold them all-around?
I attempt answering every piece of enthusiast mail that will come in, each and every DM, each and every concept. Over time this generates extended term listeners, which is great for the reason that attaining a new listener is pricey. When you shed a listener, you have to change that human being. So I can decrease the amount of money of men and women that go, “I really don’t care about this dude, I don’t care about this present,” because I interact with them in some way that makes them truly feel heard or specific.
And frankly, numerous of them are quite attention-grabbing! Then it turns into like they’re a element of the show. Persons go, “Wow, he took my recommendation. He listened to my feed-back.” That makes relationships with your admirers and your demonstrate grows in excess of time.
You do this appealing thing at the conclude of your episodes — you run a generated trailer for an additional episode of your present. Why?
I operate a trailer for yet another present on my feed. So if someone’s like, “Wow, that episode about the spy cult was actually awesome,” I’ll run a relevant trailer and I’ll ship folks again to episode 700 or what ever it is.
People price tag income to make, but I figure in excess of time what takes place is — and what I listen to from audience suggestions — they go, “Man, I listened to your episode with so-and-so because they promoted it, then at the conclude I heard a trailer for a different episode from an additional person who I like, and then I listened to the trailer right after that one…” and individuals just go down this rabbit gap in which they’re like, “Then I listened to 20 episodes and I was like, ‘This is my favorite podcast. Oh my god, how did I not know about this right before?”
That is what you want, mainly because you might be telling men and women what to pay attention to following. They will not go, “Oh, that Jordan episode is around. Enable me see what else I bought saved on my cell phone.” They go, “I am just heading to go get episode 44 of the Jordan Harbinger Demonstrate due to the fact I presently listened to a trailer and it sounds awesome.”
It is really like you are cutting down friction where by men and women might not even recognize there is friction. The friction is that if an episode of yours finished, and you didn’t explain to folks what other episode to hear to, then they’d have to make a decision on their own — or possibly not listen at all.
Your demonstrate is an interview demonstrate — and I know from personalized knowledge, acquiring been a guest on your show, that you do a ton of analysis on your visitors. Not lots of persons do that.
I look at the motion picture or read through the guide, whatever it is. I choose a bunch of notes. I organize the notes in a way that tends to make feeling. Men and women will go, “Oh, you ought to have a no cost-flowing dialogue.” I disagree with that. I assume anybody who is humorous could have a free of charge-flowing discussion, but congrats — you are in the middle of the pack of all other podcasts, and nothing at all sets you aside unless of course you are close friends with Joe Rogan and you go on his present and he sends his audience your way. In that situation, congratulations. Usually, you happen to be screwed. So what I test to do is prepare far more than every person else and have a fairly entertaining dialogue.
You have various formats in the very same feed, which I’m seeing much more of in the podcasting environment. In some cases persons run more time episodes, in some cases shorter. Sometimes a discussion, from time to time a solo episode. Can you convey to me about that tactic and how you have witnessed it do the job?
Yeah. Each and every Friday I do an information display. And I started out including debunking episodes on Sundays identified as Skeptical Sundays. Which is a little something in 2023 that we are seriously leaning into, where it truly is like, why the Olympics are form of a sham, why supplements and natural vitamins are variety of BS.
Now, why didn’t I spin that off into a different feed? I never want to run two displays. And most persons go, “I do not listen to the assistance displays. That is not something for me.” They get started off with an job interview and then sooner or later an information exhibit begins enjoying though they are cooking rooster and they go, “Wow, that was more appealing than I believed,” and they start to binge these. So you really don’t want to make friction in which they have received to go and subscribe to something else.
I suppose podcasters may possibly stress about performing this, for the reason that they never want to violate people’s expectations. It is really like, people today subscribed for a person type of clearly show — and now you might be supplying them one thing else. They could unsubscribe.
A person individual has penned to me and stated, “I want these other episodes weren’t in the feed.” And it really is like, that is a person individual who can’t skip an episode? Which is a odd issue to have. I don’t really treatment about these outliers.
Some men and women may well skip specific episodes I will not actually treatment. But what you want is a present where by individuals go, “I am not going to get ill of this since, even if a person is an interview and the upcoming one’s guidance, I can just push ahead and it is really likely to be some thing in a distinct structure.”
It keeps people fascinated, and that’s what you want. You want stickiness. If you’ve at any time gotten ill of a podcast, it really is likely since it truly is gotten to be the identical issue in excess of and in excess of. Alternatively, you increase selection in a way that will make perception for the individuality variety that might pay attention to the show.
Another factor that I possibly should not say out loud, but I’m likely to do: When you subscribe to a podcast and you down load the episode, I would like it if you listened to that episode, but if you do not, I nevertheless get paid. Not the ideal-scenario situation, but also improved than nothing at all.
So how a lot of episodes are you placing out a 7 days now? And how several days is as well numerous days to release an episode?
I place out 3. I would say three is the max, and not just for the listener. I suppose you could do additional if they were being shorter. My interviews are in excess of an hour, my tips shows are about an hour, Skeptical Sundays are about an hour. So that is a format where by folks can binge it if they want to, but you can find also place for other things in their lifestyle, or other podcasts.
For me, it truly is not just variety. I like undertaking the suggestions, undertaking Skeptical Sundays, and carrying out the interviews. But I’m not just mailing it in. I do not do that. I have got a bunch of notes. If I’m performing two interviews a 7 days, I’ve bought to go through two books a 7 days. That is a lot. I’ve acquired two small young children. I’ve received three episodes that I am releasing. I cannot do extra than that.